Fundamental Argument

Posted to The Keys by JJ Dewey on Sunday, September 9, 2007 4:25 am

I've been having an interesting exchange with a Mormon fundamentalist on Sterling and Susan's list. Thought I would share this with you.

First Post

JJ:

Reason and common sense is the starting place and when they take you as far as they can then one can seek through God. It is when you "lack wisdom" that you are expected to seek help.

Reader:

"They only draw a person away from the source of truth and into the confusion of their darkened minds - darkened because they are relying on man instead of the Spirit of God."

JJ:

When has true reason and common sense ever led anyone to a darkened mind? If reason and common sense are bad then the prophets are all imposters because they all used it. The reasoning of Jesus was so powerful that the authorities were afraid to ask him any more questions. Joseph Smith used a lot of reason and common sense.

"Great God! Where is common sense and reason? Is there none on the earth?" exclaimed a somewhat frustrated Joseph Smith as he was trying to drill the simplest logic into the minds of the saints. (See Documentary History of the Church Vol 5:297)

Reader:

"I'm not interested in writings that are in harmony with man's reason and common sense - I want writings in harmony with God's truths."

JJ:

If the reasoning and common sense is sound then they will be the same. Anything that is true will be in harmony with reason and that which is not true will have flaws revealed by reason.

Reader:

"And since His ways are not our ways, nor His thoughts our thoughts (Isaiah 55:9) then man's reasonings are generally not the same as God's truths. Again, by the Spirit we will know the truth of all things."

JJ:

The scripture doesn't mention reasoning.

This scripture is a continual excuse for believers to remain mentally lazy, but such laziness is contrary to them.

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." (2 Tim 1:7)

"And he (Paul) reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks." (Acts 18:4)

Sure, God's ways are higher than ours, but a calculus teacher also knows math that I do not. This does not mean that I drop the use of reason.

Reader:

"Since you don't know me, I'll have to say candidly that I'm a very open person to new ideas - yet all new thoughts are weighed against the Spirit within and the truths I already know from that Spirit. Notice, I said truths - not traditions or religious precepts of any religion, unless they also are truths."

JJ:

Sounds good as long as you are dealing with the spirit and not your emotional desires.

Reader:

"It is just as unwise to reject a truth because it is popular as it is to accept a truth because it is not. There are some truths that are popular - such as God is love. or the Truth sets you free. And there are many damning falsehoods that pretend to be truth and are popular as well. Again, by the Spirit we are able to discern what is of God or not."

JJ:

Yes, as long as you do all you can do first as illustrated by this scripture:

"Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me. But, behold, I say unto you, that YOU MUST STUDY IT OUT IN YOUR MIND; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right." (D&C 9:7-8)

We are not just given higher knowledge with no effort but we must study things out with all the faculties at our disposal.

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